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加拿大家园论坛 > 求学深造 > 国内读法律的想到加国继续深造的进来聊聊吧

国内读法律的想到加国继续深造的进来聊聊吧
heqiang128 2007-03-04 00:57

本人04年从国内一普通高校法学本科毕业。毕业后在法院工作两年。05年通过国家司法考试。06年考上国内某重点高校法学硕士。现在读。
由于女友已移民加拿大,现在温哥华。
所以自己也希望移民加国,然后继续在加国学习法律。
可是跟周围的同学交流发现大多数人要学法律的话都是去美国,很少听说有到加拿大读法律的。而且到国外读法律非常艰苦,无论是入学还是毕业,好像都不轻松。
我现在只查询过ubc law的有关情况,有一个M.J(master jurisprudece)学位,只有一年,类似于美国的LLM。也不知道考上的可能性有多大,工作是否好找,现正在犹豫。
有类似经历或了解相关信息的nice person欢迎来交流一下啊,如果能给小弟一份建议更是感激不尽啊。
提前感谢一下啊!

Beijing2008 2007-03-04 03:56

语言要求很高,另加拿大法律和中国法律不同,你被录取的可能性不大.

Beijing2008 2007-03-04 03:58

你如不是加拿大大学法学本科很难找到工作.如你外语还可以,可以尝试做法律翻译工作,这里法庭请中文翻译,很多机会

Beijing2008 2007-03-04 04:00

加拿大法律和美国不同,英联邦国家,QUEBEC更是自己一套

lugordon 2007-03-04 05:32

引用:

作者: Beijing2008 (帖子 1373763)
你如不是加拿大大学法学本科很难找到工作.如你外语还可以,可以尝试做法律翻译工作,这里法庭请中文翻译,很多机会

这个思路值得LZ参考。

lugordon 2007-03-04 05:33

引用:

作者: Beijing2008 (帖子 1373765)
加拿大法律和美国不同,英联邦国家,QUEBEC更是自己一套

听说魁省执行的是大陆法系?

heqiang128 2007-03-04 11:20

在这里先谢一下版主和Beijing2008了!
对,没错,法律专业对语言比其他专业要求高。而且只有拿到加拿大的法学本科学位(LLB)才有资格申请律师执照,可是LLB太难考,而且还要学三年,所以才考虑先读M.J,以后如果有机会转LLB的话就努力再学LLB,如果没有机会,凭着一个M.J学位,做个律师助理或者其他的与法律有关的工作应该还是有可能的吧。
UBC的M.J学位好像是最近才设立的,它就是面向本科属于大陆法系的学生的。
加拿大的法律体系很有特色,大陆法系和英美法系并存,魁北克省属于大陆法系,其他地区属于英美法系。
只是因为自己对加拿大的法律专业录取和就业情况了解的太少了,也没有把握,所以一直都在犹豫。这种感觉太痛苦了,想努力又下不了决心。

lugordon 2007-03-04 19:06

引用:

作者: heqiang128 (帖子 1374141)
这种感觉太痛苦了,想努力又下不了决心。

这就是成长、成熟的过程:)

祝你早日跨过去,拨云见日:)

heqiang128 2007-03-05 02:45

多谢斑竹
希望自己能早日跨越这个过程

chenping58 2007-03-06 06:14

有没想过paralegals?

紫睫 2007-03-07 15:15

paralegals是什么?我跟搂主的经历很相似,也想知道学法律的人到加拿大有什么发展,如果要改行似乎有点不甘心。

紫睫 2007-03-07 15:18

希望能互相帮助,多了解一些情况。加个msn吧,windflower_zhan@hotmail.com

newnews 2007-03-08 03:43

我也是读法律的
认识2个读法律的
一个读法律的 准备读律师助理 但她说很难找工作 因为没工作经验
另一个是国内律师来的 现在也是在瞎学英文 最近还说去美国 感觉她已经不是需要奋斗都够钱用的了 所以不知道她的选择

而我 感觉 再走法律这路 不是不行 但感觉好像起码需要10年8年的 感觉自己耗不起啊
我也是04年毕业的 没参加司考

楼主司考都过了 前景不是很好么
如果中国承认双重国籍的话 就好了 将来我回国考司考 感觉机会还是在中国的大
没出国觉得出国是机遇 出国了感觉中国才是发展的好地方
等楼主来了再说
大家多交流 呵呵

newnews 2007-03-08 03:46

paralegals 律师助理

heqiang128 2007-03-09 00:25

原以为打算到加国学法律的很少,很少会有人搭理自己的帖子呢,没想到还真 有几位同道中人呢,很受鼓舞啊!
关于到加拿大学法律,我是这样想的:
对于一个中国人来说,在法律行业要想有所作为的话,我想最终还是要在国内的。因为即使你在加国(或是美国)取得了律师资格,即使你的素质相当高,由于法律行业地域性、政治性强的特点,你也无法与国外当地的律师竞争。
因为我打算与女友在加国定居,所以我只是希望能找到一份不错的工作。法律行业毕竟在加国属于非常不错的行业,即使做一名律师助理,我也会比较满足的。只要有机会进入加国的法律行业,慢慢的积累经验,再不断地学习,应该有可能再获得一些新的发展机会吧。
如果newnews或紫睫打算以后在国内从事法律行业的话,而且有机会到国外念一个法律学位的话,我认为这是非常值得的。尽管现在国内(尤其是在北京)到国外念法律学成归来的高手越来越多,有了这个国外的法律学位并不意味着一定能找到你理想的工作,但这肯定会为你增添一份把握的,而且更重要的是英语水平的提高(当然,这需要自己的努力,因为不是到国外溜一圈外语水平就能显著提高的,国内需要的是熟练使用英语办案的人才),这会使你有机会在国内的高端法律行业中寻找到一份理想的工作。
我这里有一个论坛,上边到美国学法律的信息较全,可能大家都知道了,我把网址贴上来,不知道的可以上去看看。www.totoolaw.com(TOTOO法律青年论坛)
说到司法考试,考前的确感觉像是一座大山,而且会认为翻过这座大山,山那边一定会风光无限。但是,考过之后,你才明白这只是一个进入法律行业的门票,进了这个门之后,你会看到一切才刚刚开始。未来的艰难险阻远远超过了司考本身的难度。
不过尽管如此,我还是深深热爱法律这个行业。在法院工作的两年,机关作风太浓厚,你很少可以有自己的想法,个人发展空间受限很大。所以选择继续读研究生,寻找更好的发展机会。
不好意思,自己一直都没有用msn,留个qq(18682253)吧,非常希望跟大家多交流。
再次感谢各位对自己帖子的支持!

紫睫 2007-03-14 16:37

大家共同学习研究啊!:)加qq也行,就是上的较少,如果去加的话还是用msn比较好,好像用得更普遍些。

chenping58 2007-03-21 02:26

我觉得在北美当律师虽然难,但并不是不可能的.我在美国认识也听说过中国人上法学院的,我觉得前景不是很暗淡.

事实上,我知道读法学院的人在国内都不是律师,都是改行的.我也是要改行的.而且我们的共同目标都是做专利律师.

在北美,中国人想当律师,上庭和人唇枪舌剑的辩论,机会恐怕是太小了,语言根本不过关.但是当专利律师,对语言要求不是很高,是外国人的较好选择.

我有理解有误的地方,希望大家给我指正,也希望大家给我更多建议.更希望有同行一起备考LSAT.

In addtion, paralegals 在加国开始要license了,但在美国不要.其实就是帮律师准备材料什么的.年薪3-5万,有些大公司可给到8万.我觉得不是很高.在加国,高中毕业后在社区大学学两年就能考license.对高中毕业生来说,这份薪水不少了.可是从国内去的想读法律的都是有钱有地位的人呵,这点钱只怕你们不接受吧.

阿拉蕾 2007-03-22 16:33

引用:

作者: chenping58 (帖子 1418067)
我觉得在北美当律师虽然难,但并不是不可能的.我在美国认识也听说过中国人上法学院的,我觉得前景不是很暗淡.

事实上,我知道读法学院的人在国内都不是律师,都是改行的.我也是要改行的.而且我们的共同目标都是做专利律师.

在北美,中国人想当律师,上庭和人唇枪舌剑的辩论,机会恐怕是太小了,语言根本不过关.但是当专利律师,对语言要求不是很高,是外国人的较好选择.

我有理解有误的地方,希望大家给我指正,也希望大家给我更多建议.更希望有同行一起备考LSAT.

In addtion, paralegals 在加国开始要license了,但在美国不要.其实就是帮律师准备材料什么的.年薪3-5万,有些大公司可给到8万.我觉得不是很高.在加国,高中毕业后在社区大学学两年就能考license.对高中毕业生来说,这份薪水不少了.可是从国内去的想读法律的都是有钱有地位的人呵,这点钱只怕你们不接受吧.


我在国内的本科是国际贸易,在职研究生是国际法,马上也要去加国了。很头痛未来的职业规划。目前也在考虑专利方面的律师工作,但是好像在国内这个专业也是有相关的专业技术背景比较好,不知道在加拿大是不是也这样呢?

chenping58 2007-03-23 09:34

引用:

作者: 阿拉蕾 (帖子 1422752)
我在国内的本科是国际贸易,在职研究生是国际法,马上也要去加国了。很头痛未来的职业规划。目前也在考虑专利方面的律师工作,但是好像在国内这个专业也是有相关的专业技术背景比较好,不知道在加拿大是不是也这样呢?

是这样呀

Beijing2008 2007-03-23 10:30

看你们讨论了一段时间,没一个谈到正点上,为什么要做律师的人不会查资料?
Patent attorney
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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A patent attorney is an attorney who has the specialized qualifications necessary for representing clients in obtaining patents and acting in all matters and procedures relating to patent law and practice, such as filing an opposition. The term is used differently in different countries, and thus may or may not require the same legal qualifications as a general legal practitioner.

The titles patent agent and patent lawyer are also used in some jurisdictions. In some jurisdictions the terms are interchangeable, otherwise the latter is generally used if the person qualified as a lawyer.



Qualification regimes

[edit] Canada
To become a registered patent agent in Canada one must first complete a twelve-month mentorship training program as well as complete a series of four qualifying exams.

Each of the four exams (also referred to individually as Paper A, B, C, and D) is four hours in length. Paper A relates to the preparation of a patent application. Paper B relates to the validity of a patent. Paper C relates to the preparation of a response to an Official Action. Paper D relates to the infringement of a patent. Unlike the US system, the Canadian examination format is paper based and is offered once yearly in April. Results are posted in the autumn of the same year.

The exam is notoriously challenging and most applicants attempt the exam over several years. In order to pass, candidates must score a minimum of 50 out of 100 on each paper, with a minimum aggregate mark of 240 on all four papers. Recent amendments to the pass requirements enable candidates to carry forward paper marks (greater than 60 out of 100), if the minimum aggregate mark is not achieved.

Review courses are held each summer and fall by IPIC (Intellectual Property Institute of Canada). The summer course tends to be more general in scope than the fall course, where drafting practice examinations is emphasised.

Once certified, a registered patent agent is given powers under the Canadian Patent Act to represent applicants applying to the Canadian Patent Office to obtain patent protection. Canadian registered patent agents may apply for U.S. patent agent status in order to act on behalf of Canadian resident applicants before the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO).

Beijing2008 2007-03-23 10:32


Beijing2008 2007-03-23 10:37

Patent Attorney

Significant Points
Competition for job openings should be keen because of the large number of students graduating from law school each year.
Formal requirements to become a lawyer generally include a 4-year college degree, 3 years of law school, and passing a written bar examination; however, some requirements may vary by State.
Competition for admission to most law schools is intense.
About 3 out of 4 lawyers practiced privately, either as partners in law firms or in solo practices.

Nature of the Work

The legal system affects nearly every aspect of our society, from buying a home to crossing the street. Lawyers form the backbone of this vital system, linking it to society in numerous ways. For that reason, they hold positions of great responsibility and are obligated to adhere to a strict code of ethics.

Lawyers, also called attorneys, act as both advocates and advisors in our society. As advocates, they represent one of the parties in criminal and civil trials by presenting evidence and arguing in court to support their client. As advisors, lawyers counsel their clients concerning their legal rights and obligations and suggest particular courses of action in business and personal matters. Whether acting as an advocate or an advisor, all attorneys research the intent of laws and judicial decisions and apply the law to the specific circumstances faced by their client.

The more detailed aspects of a lawyer’s job depend upon his or her field of specialization and position. Although all lawyers are licensed to represent parties in court, some appear in court more frequently than others. Trial lawyers, who specialize in trial work, must be able to think quickly and speak with ease and authority. In addition, familiarity with courtroom rules and strategy is particularly important in trial work. Still, trial lawyers spend the majority of their time outside the courtroom, conducting research, interviewing clients and witnesses, and handling other details in preparation for a trial.

Lawyers may specialize in a number of areas, such as bankruptcy, probate, international, or elder law. Those specializing in environmental law, for example, may represent interest groups, waste disposal companies, or construction firms in their dealings with the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and other Federal and State agencies. These lawyers help clients prepare and file for licenses and applications for approval before certain activities may occur. In addition, they represent clients’ interests in administrative adjudications.

Some lawyers specialize in the growing field of intellectual property, helping to protect clients’ claims to copyrights, artwork under contract, product designs, and computer programs. Still other lawyers advise insurance companies about the legality of insurance transactions, guiding the company in writing insurance policies to conform with the law and to protect the companies from unwarranted claims. When claims are filed against insurance companies, these attorneys review the claims and represent the companies in court.

Most lawyers are in private practice, concentrating on criminal or civil law. In criminal law, lawyers represent individuals who have been charged with crimes and argue their cases in courts of law. Attorneys dealing with civil law assist clients with litigation, wills, trusts, contracts, mortgages, titles, and leases. Other lawyers handle only public-interest cases—civil or criminal—which may have an impact extending well beyond the individual client.

Lawyers are sometimes employed full time by a single client. If the client is a corporation, the lawyer is known as “house counsel” and usually advises the company concerning legal issues related to its business activities. These issues might involve patents, government regulations, contracts with other companies, property interests, or collective bargaining agreements with unions.

A significant number of attorneys are employed at the various levels of government. Lawyers who work for State attorneys general, prosecutors, public defenders, and courts play a key role in the criminal justice system. At the Federal level, attorneys investigate cases for the U.S. Department of Justice and other agencies. Government lawyers also help develop programs, draft and interpret laws and legislation, establish enforcement procedures, and argue civil and criminal cases on behalf of the government.

Other lawyers work for legal aid societies—private, nonprofit organizations established to serve disadvantaged people. These lawyers generally handle civil, rather than criminal, cases. A relatively small number of trained attorneys work in law schools. Most are faculty members who specialize in one or more subjects; however, some serve as administrators. Others work full time in nonacademic settings and teach part time.

Lawyers are increasingly using various forms of technology to perform their varied tasks more efficiently. Although all lawyers continue to use law libraries to prepare cases, some supplement conventional printed sources with computer sources, such as the Internet and legal databases. Software is used to search this legal literature automatically and to identify legal texts relevant to a specific case. In litigation involving many supporting documents, lawyers may use computers to organize and index material. Lawyers also utilize electronic filing, videoconferencing, and voice-recognition technology to share information more effectively with other parties involved in a case.



Working Conditions

Management analysts usually divide their time between their offices and the client’s site. In either situation, much of an analyst’s time is spent indoors in clean, well-lit offices. Because they must spend a significant portion of their time with clients, analysts travel frequently.

Analysts and consultants generally work at least 40 hours a week. Uncompensated overtime is common, especially when project deadlines are approaching. Analysts may experience a great deal of stress as a result of trying to meet a client’s demands, often on a tight schedule.

Self-employed consultants can set their workload and hours and work at home. On the other hand, their livelihood depends on their ability to maintain and expand their client base. Salaried consultants also must impress potential clients to get and keep clients for their company.



Employment

Lawyers held about 735,000 jobs in 2004. Approximately 3 out of 4 lawyers practiced privately, either as partners in law firms or in solo practices. Most salaried lawyers held positions in government or with corporations or nonprofit organizations. The greatest number of lawyers working in government were employed at the local level. In the Federal Government, lawyers work for many different agencies, but are concentrated in the Departments of Justice, Treasury, and Defense. Many salaried lawyers working outside of government are employed as house counsel by public utilities, banks, insurance companies, real estate agencies, manufacturing firms, and other business firms and nonprofit organizations. Some also have part-time independent practices, while others work part time as lawyers and full time in another occupation.



Training

To practice law in the courts of any State or other jurisdiction, a person must be licensed, or admitted to its bar, under rules established by the jurisdiction’s highest court. All States require that applicants for admission to the bar pass a written bar examination; most States also require applicants to pass a separate written ethics examination. Lawyers who have been admitted to the bar in one State occasionally may be admitted to the bar in another without taking an examination if they meet the latter jurisdiction’s standards of good moral character and a specified period of legal experience. In most cases, however, lawyers must pass the bar examination in each State in which they plan to practice. Federal courts and agencies set their own qualifications for those practicing before or in them.

To qualify for the bar examination in most States, an applicant usually must earn a college degree and graduate from a law school accredited by the American Bar Association (ABA) or the proper State authorities. ABA accreditation signifies that the law school—particularly its library and faculty—meets certain standards developed to promote quality legal education. As of 2005, there were 191 ABA-accredited law schools; others were approved by State authorities only. With certain exceptions, graduates of schools not approved by the ABA are restricted to taking the bar examination and practicing in the State or other jurisdiction in which the school is located; most of these schools are in California. In 2005, seven States—California, Maine, New York, Vermont, Virginia, Washington, and Wyoming—accepted the study of law in a law office as qualification for taking the bar examination; three jurisdictions—California, the District of Columbia, and New Mexico—now accept the study of law by correspondence. Several States require registration and approval of students by the State Board of Law Examiners, either before the students enter law school or during their early years of legal study.

Although there is no nationwide bar examination, 48 States, the District of Columbia, Guam, the Northern Mariana Islands, Puerto Rico, and the Virgin Islands require the 6-hour Multistate Bar Examination (MBE) as part of the overall bar examination; the MBE is not required in Louisiana or Washington. The MBE covers a broad range of issues, and sometimes a locally prepared State bar examination is given in addition to it. The 3-hour Multistate Essay Examination (MEE) is used as part of the bar examination in several States. States vary in their use of MBE and MEE scores.

Many States also require Multistate Performance Testing (MPT) to test the practical skills of beginning lawyers. Requirements vary by State, although the test usually is taken at the same time as the bar exam and is a one-time requirement.

The required college and law school education usually takes 7 years of full-time study after high school—4 years of undergraduate study, followed by 3 years of law school. Law school applicants must have a bachelor’s degree to qualify for admission. To meet the needs of students who can attend only part time, a number of law schools have night or part-time divisions, which usually require 4 years of study; about 1 in 10 graduates from ABA-approved schools attended part time.

Although there is no recommended “prelaw” major, prospective lawyers should develop proficiency in writing and speaking, reading, researching, analyzing, and thinking logically—skills needed to succeed both in law school and in the profession. Regardless of major, a multidisciplinary background is recommended. Courses in English, foreign languages, public speaking, government, philosophy, history, economics, mathematics, and computer science, among others, are useful. Students interested in a particular aspect of law may find related courses helpful. For example, prospective patent lawyers need a strong background in engineering or science, and future tax lawyers must have extensive knowledge of accounting.
Other Qualifications

Advancement

Job Outlook

Employment of lawyers is expected to grow about as fast as average for all occupations through 2014, primarily as a result of growth in the population and in the general level of business activities. Job growth among lawyers also will result from increasing demand for legal services in such areas as health care, intellectual property, venture capital, energy, elder, antitrust, and environmental law. In addition, the wider availability and affordability of legal clinics should result in increased use of legal services by middle-income people. However, growth in demand for lawyers will be limited as businesses, in an effort to reduce costs, increasingly use large accounting firms and paralegals to perform some of the same functions that lawyers do. For example, accounting firms may provide employee-benefit counseling, process documents, or handle various other services previously performed by a law firm. Also, mediation and dispute resolution increasingly are being used as alternatives to litigation.

Competition for job openings should continue to be keen because of the large number of students graduating from law school each year. Graduates with superior academic records from highly regarded law schools will have the best job opportunities. Perhaps as a result of competition for attorney positions, lawyers are increasingly finding work in nontraditional areas for which legal training is an asset, but not normally a requirement—for example, administrative, managerial, and business positions in banks, insurance firms, real estate companies, government agencies, and other organizations. Employment opportunities are expected to continue to arise in these organizations at a growing rate.

As in the past, some graduates may have to accept positions in areas outside of their field of interest or for which they feel overqualified. Some recent law school graduates who have been unable to find permanent positions are turning to the growing number of temporary staffing firms that place attorneys in short-term jobs until they are able to secure full-time positions. This service allows companies to hire lawyers on an “as-needed” basis and permits beginning lawyers to develop practical skills while looking for permanent positions.

Because of the keen competition for jobs, a law graduate’s geographic mobility and work experience assume greater importance. The willingness to relocate may be an advantage in getting a job, but to be licensed in another State, a lawyer may have to take an additional State bar examination. In addition, employers are increasingly seeking graduates who have advanced law degrees and experience in a specialty, such as tax, patent, or admiralty law.

Employment growth for lawyers will continue to be concentrated in salaried jobs, as businesses and all levels of government employ a growing number of staff attorneys and as employment in the legal services industry grows. Most salaried positions are in urban areas where government agencies, law firms, and big corporations are concentrated. The number of self-employed lawyers is expected to decrease slowly, reflecting the difficulty of establishing a profitable new practice in the face of competition from larger, established law firms. Moreover, the growing complexity of law, which encourages specialization, along with the cost of maintaining up-to-date legal research materials, favors larger firms.

For lawyers who wish to work independently, establishing a new practice will probably be easiest in small towns and expanding suburban areas. In such communities, competition from larger, established law firms is likely to be less keen than in big cities, and new lawyers may find it easier to become known to potential clients.

Some lawyers are adversely affected by cyclical swings in the economy. During recessions, demand declines for some discretionary legal services, such as planning estates, drafting wills, and handling real estate transactions. Also, corporations are less likely to litigate cases when declining sales and profits result in budgetary restrictions. Some corporations and law firms will not hire new attorneys until business improves, and these establishments may even cut staff to contain costs. Several factors, however, mitigate the overall impact of recessions on lawyers; during recessions, for example, individuals and corporations face other legal problems, such as bankruptcies, foreclosures, and divorces requiring legal action.



Earnings

In May 2004, the median annual earnings of all lawyers were $94,930. The middle half of the occupation earned between $64,620 and $143,620. Median annual earnings in the industries employing the largest numbers of lawyers in May 2004 were as follows:

Management of companies and enterprises $126,250
Federal Government 108,090
Legal services 99,580
Local government 73,410
State government 70,280


Median salaries of lawyers 9 months after graduation from law school in 2004 varied by type of work, as indicated in Table 1.

Salaries of experienced attorneys vary widely according to the type, size, and location of their employer. Lawyers who own their own practices usually earn less than those who are partners in law firms. Lawyers starting their own practice may need to work part time in other occupations to supplement their income until their practice is well established.

Most salaried lawyers are provided health and life insurance, and contributions are made to retirement plans on their behalf. Lawyers who practice independently are covered only if they arrange and pay for such benefits themselves.



Related Occupations

Legal training is necessary in many other occupations, including paralegals and legal assistants; law clerks; title examiners, abstractors, and searchers; and judges, magistrates, and other judicial workers.



Sources of Additional Information

Information on law schools and a career in law may be obtained from the following organizations:

* American Bar Association, 321 North Clark St., Chicago, IL 60610. Internet: http://www.abanet.org

* National Association for Law Placement, 1025 Connecticut Ave. NW., Suite 1110, Washington, DC 20036. Internet: http://www.nalp.org


Information on the LSAT, the Law School Data Assembly Service, the law school application process, and financial aid available to law students may be obtained from:

* Law School Admission Council, P.O. Box 40, Newtown, PA 18940. Internet: http://www.lsac.org


Information on obtaining positions as occupational health and safety specialists and technicians with the Federal Government is available from the Office of Personnel Management through USAJOBS, the Federal Government’s official employment information system. This resource for locating and applying for job opportunities can be accessed through the Internet at http://www.usajobs.opm.gov or through an interactive voice response telephone system at (703) 724-1850 or TDD (978) 461-8404. These numbers are not tollfree, and charges may result.


The requirements for admission to the bar in a particular State or other jurisdiction also may be obtained at the State capital, from the clerk of the Supreme Court, or from the administrator of the State Board of Bar Examiners.


Source: Bureau of Labor Statistics, U.S. Department of Labor, Occupational Outlook Handbook, 2006-07 Edition, Lawyers, on the Internet at http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm (visited July 24, 2006)

叶子66600 2007-03-23 11:47

对不起LZ ! 借此宝地一用.

呼叫BEIJING2008 !!!
我拜读过您的帖子,
麻烦你给我修改一下,十万火急,先拜谢了!
请象批改小学生作业一样, 有错您别生气.
My IELTS result 6656 tested on Mar.10th shocked me today, it is not as good as it should be and it will be sent directly to you soon by IELTS center . I registed immediately for the IELTS test on June 16th in Qingdao which is the earliest available date in Qingdao. Now I am writing for asking an opportunity to submit my new IELTS result in June .


The reason is that I had been very busy on my work and took the test without any reviewing and just after a long business trip . It effected IELTS result .

My family have been keeping the strong feeling to get a chance to Canada . Kindly pls give us a chance to provide a new language test result instead of refusing my application .

I am very confident on my work skills and my language abilities , and I can be sure that I will get new better scores .


Your reply will be high appreciated !


Yours sincerely

叶子66600 2007-03-23 11:48

欢迎各位铜子给批改一下!!!!!!!!!!
水平有限,请不惜赐教!

紫睫 2007-03-23 11:54

谢谢2008提供资料!

其实楼主好像已经查了不少资料有一定的了解了,我确实差很多,到目前为止都还没定下目标,所以只是纸上谈兵,没怎么查资料,而且确实英语也不是很好,更喜欢看中文论坛上的资料。:wdb4:

本来以为过了司法考试就不用再费力气学习了,没想到决定移民,又要从新开始,觉得很累,本来就不是个爱学习的人。

昨天见了一个从温哥华回来的老移民朋友,说她的一个朋友在做律师助理,很辛苦,而且除了问题律师也都怪在他头上,压力很大的。

另外我一个同学毕业后就去美国读书,因为直接申请学法律很难,所以转读了新闻的硕士学位,然后又读了法学硕士和博士,靠过了纽约州的律考,现在已经是律师了,在一个中国人的律所里做非诉,具体哪方面我记不清了。

她当年在学校学习就很厉害,而且这些年学下来真得很辛苦,我现在这个年龄在走这条路好像有点晚了,刚毕业的同学们可以参考。但是美国和加拿大还是差别比较大的。

叶子66600 2007-03-26 10:03

在这里再次感谢BEJING 2008 帮忙!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
祝你好运!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chenping58 2007-03-27 01:20

谢谢2008的贴子.

heqiang128 2007-03-27 14:31

感谢Beijing2008为我们提供了比较权威的信息。
不过上面的信息里没有提到申请人需要具备什么条件,例如学历背景之类的。我们新移民都可以报考吗?

heqiang128 2007-03-27 14:40

我们在这里应该向Beijing2008学习,多查阅权威的英文资料。

georgezhou 2007-03-28 01:54

在美国或加拿大读一年的法律根本没有用,只能回国骗骗人,在这里必须要从本科上或者读到法学博士才有可能找到好工作.

laowang 2007-04-11 17:58

我拿到了多伦多大学和美国top 20的法学院LLM的offer(决无炫耀之意)。由于枫叶卡的原因,正在艰难的抉择中。如果没有这个卡,我会选择美国。关于读法学院和就业,可以提供一点信息供大家参考。

在美国,有5-6个州(包括纽约州)允许外国学生在美国律师协会认可的法学院读完LLM后参加律师考试,通过后可以拿到执照,开始执业。虽然学费比加拿大贵很多(前20名的法学院学费基本上在3.5万美元左右,纽约大学更是3.9万美元/年),但是读完一年书可以马上考照,并且纽约州的总体通过率在60%左右,所以大多数中国人选择读LLM,然后考照,然后回国发展。国内的大多数海龟都是这种情形。毕竟3年JD的高昂费用不是每个人都承担得起,或者愿意承担的,尤其是对于在国内已经事业有成的人士,机会成本太高。镀镀金,拿个美国执照,已经不错了。

当然也有朋友去读JD,我以前的同事,今年毕业,念二年级的时候就被美国最大的律所录取了,现在很开心。如果是美国前20名法学院的JD毕业生(如果成绩属于中上等),在美国找工作不是很困难的事情。我知道的事实,认识的人都证明了这一点。那种认为中国人英文比美国人差,无法在律所立足的说法缺乏事实依据。但也必须承认,中国人在诉讼领域是处劣势,但在非诉领域还是有得一拼的。LLM,即使拿到执照,在美国执业确实是非常困难,好像这个比例在1%的样子(可能不权威)。

在加拿大,大家就没这么幸运了,想只读一年书就考照?答案是--此门目前没开,并且肯定在未来5-10年也不会开(本人已经与加拿大权威部门函证)。不幸的是,加拿大不允许外国人只读LLM就参加律师考试,必须读LLB/JD,或者读完LLM后,通过NCA (National Comittee of Accreditation,类似于认定学生是否有资格参加律考的机构)认证,开出需要额外学习的课程(差不多还要最少再读2年)。因为LLM的一些(如果不是全部!)学分不能被认可(有些LLM的课程是LLB不认可的),所以NCA的建议是老老实实读LLB来得快,折腾也少。如果打算读三年,那也要做好心理准备,就连头衔都比美国差。美国读三年后叫JD,法律博士;加拿大绝大多数学校仍然叫LLB,法学学士(虽然实质上确实是学士)。给外行的人看看,会觉得加拿大的是矮一大截,人家是博士,你们到加拿大才混个学士,是不是类似于国内的双学位?当然,有的学校改了称呼,也叫JD,比如多伦多大学,但多数没有改,继续保留悠久的良好传统-坚持叫LLB(Bachelor),不像美国人,太好面子(呵呵)。如果你幸运的读完LLB(每门课70分以上),或者修完NCA指定的课程,然后参加差不多为期一年的实习,再参加律考。过了,就恭喜你了,终于功德圆满,成为加拿大律师了!

补充一句:实习期间是有工资的,差不多是律师工资的70%。我认识的一个加拿大律师朋友是这么告诉我的。

我在挣扎中,到底走哪条路?美国还是加拿大?读LLM再申请认证,补修课程还是转JD?确实是很难的决定。希望有同行过来人指点一二。谢谢!

以上有不对的地方,欢迎指正,大家一起交流。

wondering 2007-04-21 04:40

楼上为什么不考虑York和NYU的LLB/JD joint program呢,四年中两年在多伦多两年在纽约,完了之后两边都能考Bar,费用上比加拿大LLB贵比美国JD便宜,我个人认为物超所值,前提是你有好的LSAT分数能够被录取。

我也是做专利的,现在在美国念LLM,下个月就毕业了。之后会先回中国。

chenping58 2007-04-21 06:19

[quote=laowang;1479490]我拿到了多伦多大学和美国top 20的法学院LLM的offer(决无炫耀之意)。

能问一下LSAT考了多少分吗.如不愿意公开,可发信给我.

chenping58@hotmail.com

没别的意思,只是我也要考了,想鼓励自己一下.

谢谢

chenping58 2007-04-21 06:27

[quote=laowang;1479490]我拿到了多伦多大学和美国top 20的法学院LLM的offer(决无炫耀之意)。由于枫叶卡的原因,正在艰难的抉择中。如果没有这个卡,我会选择美国。关于读法学院和就业,可以提供一点信息供大家参考。

再问一下,我听说加拿大的LLB在美国只有三个州的律考可参加:MA, CA, NY (见于Law school, U of Toronto). 但是你知道加拿大的law students考过BAR后在美国是否好找工作?

谢谢!

我也不知道你该如何选择. U of T 的law school 是top1的.但是美国top20也很难得.:wdb17: :wdb17: :wdb17:

我一个朋友在一个美国top20念JD.她说她有两个学期的成绩不很好,再加上还没考过BAR,又是外国人,所以工作不是很好找.

laowang 2007-04-21 12:02

[quote=chenping58;1506169]
引用:

作者: laowang (帖子 1479490)
我拿到了多伦多大学和美国top 20的法学院LLM的offer(决无炫耀之意)。由于枫叶卡的原因,正在艰难的抉择中。如果没有这个卡,我会选择美国。关于读法学院和就业,可以提供一点信息供大家参考。

再问一下,我听说加拿大的LLB在美国只有三个州的律考可参加:MA, CA, NY (见于Law school, U of Toronto). 但是你知道加拿大的law students考过BAR后在美国是否好找工作?

谢谢!

我也不知道你该如何选择. U of T 的law school 是top1的.但是美国top20也很难得.:wdb17: :wdb17: :wdb17:

我一个朋友在一个美国top20念JD.她说她有两个学期的成绩不很好,再加上还没考过BAR,又是外国人,所以工作不是很好找.

我在Comprehensive Guide to Bar Admissions in the USA中只看到MA的:
Does your jurisdiction recognize with regularity the
sufficiency of a legal education received at any particular
foreign law school?
Massachusetts Canadian Law Schools: University of
Alberta; University of British Columbia; University
of Calgary; Dalhousie University; University of
Manitoba; McGill University; University of New
Brunswick; University of Ottawa; Queen’s University;
University of Toronto; University of Victoria;
University of Western Ontario; University of
Windsor; York University (Osgood Hall Law School);
University of Saskatchewan.
纽约和加州没有看到。能不能给个出处?官方链接最好。:wdb6:

laowang 2007-04-21 12:24

引用:

作者: wondering (帖子 1506078)
楼上为什么不考虑York和NYU的LLB/JD joint program呢,四年中两年在多伦多两年在纽约,完了之后两边都能考Bar,费用上比加拿大LLB贵比美国JD便宜,我个人认为物超所值,前提是你有好的LSAT分数能够被录取。

我也是做专利的,现在在美国念LLM,下个月就毕业了。之后会先回中国。

一直没有准备读JD,一是因为没有勇气考LSAT,二是费用太高,难以负担。在美国读LLM呢,在北美工作很难找,移民的身份也会丧失。如果证实加拿大的JD可以在美国直接考bar,那就豁出去了,读加拿大的JD(由于移民身份,可以省很多钱,还有贷款),然后加、美都考bar。要不我向学校询问一下。有消息后再回来汇报。:wdb10:

wondering 2007-04-21 23:32

To: Laowang

我听一个在加拿大的朋友说加拿大的LLB在美国可以考NY bar,至于CA bar,是个人就能考,它不要求美国law school的credit,but那个考试很难,通过率较低。NY bar通过率高也只是表面现象,有很多是美国人,外国人的通过率据我所知也就20%左右。

我跟你一样不想考LSAT所以选择了先在美国读LLM。如果在美国读一年不会影响你的加拿大移民状态,当然是选美国top20 LLM,再考NY bar,然后去加拿大找工作。这样既拿到了美国的bar,又可以保住移民身份。如果时间上已经不允许你再在美国呆一年,那么只好在加拿大念,如果是我的话我就会念LLB,没必要花钱花时间念加拿大的LLM。从声望上来讲,加拿大的法学院和美国first tier的没法比,即便是多大。

BTW,我的学校也是top20,在DC,不会是同一家吧;-)

wondering 2007-04-21 23:46

PS: 我是05年landing的,06年秋季到美国念LLM,原来打算今年毕业后再在美国找个intern做一年,这样北美的教育和工作背景都有了,再去加拿大找工作。本来已经找好一个不错的律所了,但是国内有一个更好的机会再加上我不想和家人分开太久,所以决定毕业后先回去。laowang同学什么时候landing的?如果时间上来得及的话,还是应该先来美国,我觉得。

laowang 2007-04-22 17:27

引用:

作者: wondering (帖子 1507464)
PS: 我是05年landing的,06年秋季到美国念LLM,原来打算今年毕业后再在美国找个intern做一年,这样北美的教育和工作背景都有了,再去加拿大找工作。本来已经找好一个不错的律所了,但是国内有一个更好的机会再加上我不想和家人分开太久,所以决定毕业后先回去。laowang同学什么时候landing的?如果时间上来得及的话,还是应该先来美国,我觉得。

谢谢啊!我是06年短登的。我的学校不在DC,应该不是同一所。
关于加拿大的学校和美国的学校比较,我也问过很多人,确实是个仁者见仁的问题。可能国内主流的海龟是美国毕业的,所以多数人还是认为美国学校比加拿大的好。我有打算去多大读LLM,同时申请JD,然后转,这样一来可以拿JD(JD比LLM强得多),还可以申请入籍,还可以考两边的执照。
顺便问一句,你打算考7月份的美国bar吗?
加拿大的国籍重要吗?

laowang 2007-04-22 17:40

这确实是一个很难的选择。就像很多在美国读了JD的人说,美国的LLM什么都不是,只是混混而已,十个月的学习而已,对美国法律和实践知之甚少,只是满足急功近利的需求。他们对我读LLM不屑一顾。事实也是,回到中国的LLM基本上都不是在practice American law,只是凭借美国执照在国内practice PRC law能争取到不错的职位和薪水。如果希望在中国之外继续从事法律工作,估计JD是一个必经的选择。

laowang 2007-04-22 17:43

[quote=wondering;1507448]To: Laowang

从声望上来讲,加拿大的法学院和美国first tier的没法比,即便是多大。/quote]
好像国际排名上看,多大排名很靠前,比很多美国的top20的学校靠前。但是,当今的世界是美国的世界,大的事务所和公司也是以美国为主,加拿大的国际公司和事务所很少,没有办法和美国比。

wondering 2007-04-23 02:15

1. LLM vs JD
这是一个永远没有结论的话题。美国的JD看不起LLM是一个普遍现象。那些上了JD看不起LLM的人主要是因为觉得LLM比他们少花了两年的钱和时间,却同样拿律师执照,心里不平衡。从课程的质量来讲,我不认为有那么大差别。因为学习时间短,很多重要的课程LLM都来不及上。但是就上过的课而言,至少在我们学校(以及大部分其他美国法学院)LLM是不单独开课的,都是和JD一起上课,考试。成绩也不是单独curve的,也就是说LLM拿学分的要求和难度与JD没有区别。常听人说LLM混文凭,有些二三流的学校可能如此,但至少在我们学校不是那么好混的。不过话说回来,如果想在北美执业,JD是必经之路,这是没错。

2. 加拿大 vs 美国
如果你只想念LLM不想念JD,那我认为应该选美国。如果你为了在北美执业打算念JD,对我们这样有枫叶卡的人,当然是在加拿大念,既省钱又坐移民监。所以老王同学先上多大LLM再转JD的计划是正确的:wdb17: 。

声望的问题,我也认为多大是非常好的学校。但是如果你接触一下美国律师你就知道了,这是一群自大到极点的人,根本不知道这世界上除了美国之外还有其他国家。说得夸张一些,加拿大的LLB和中国的法律本科在他们眼里没什么区别,只要不是美国的。越是大的律所,这种观念越强烈:wdb15:

这是我在律所实习的切身体会。所以我才建议你考虑York和NYU的联合项目。不过也不是说加拿大LLB在美国就没用了,如果你很能干,也一样能进大所,但是那些美国人心里怎么想我们就左右不了了。

chenping58 2007-04-25 00:14

纽约和加州没有看到。能不能给个出处?官方链接最好。:wdb6:[/quote]
我在多大网页admission FAQ看到的

http://www.law.utoronto.ca/prosp_std...e=webpages#J.D.

Can I work in the United States with the University of Toronto J.D. degree?

The University of Toronto J.D. degree is not an American J.D. degree. It is a Canadian J.D. degree designation. The University of Toronto Faculty is not approved by the American Bar Association (nor is any Canadian law school). "ABA" approval is often a pre-requisite for admission to practice in a particular American state. Only US law schools are ABA approved. Regarding Canadian-educated and Canadian-trained applicants, each state in the United States has its own bar admission requirements. Currently, states which accept our law degree as "equivalent" to an American law degree are New York and Massachusetts. Another popular destination for our graduates is California, but to be eligible to write the California Bar, one must first be called to the Bar of a Canadian province, or another American state such as New York. Detailed requirements for every state are available in a publication called the Comprehensive Guide to Bar Admission Requirements published by the American Bar Association.


但是至于美国律考的链接我就没找过. 你可以找找看,找到告诉我哦.:wdb9:

laowang 2007-05-09 15:16

引用:

作者: wondering (帖子 1509845)
1. LLM vs JD
这是一个永远没有结论的话题。美国的JD看不起LLM是一个普遍现象。那些上了JD看不起LLM的人主要是因为觉得LLM比他们少花了两年的钱和时间,却同样拿律师执照,心里不平衡。
2. 加拿大 vs 美国
如果你只想念LLM不想念JD,那我认为应该选美国。如果你为了在北美执业打算念JD,对我们这样有枫叶卡的人,当然是在加拿大念,既省钱又坐移民监。所以老王同学先上多大LLM再转JD的计划是正确的:wdb17: 。

声望的问题,我也认为多大是非常好的学校。但是如果你接触一下美国律师你就知道了,这是一群自大到极点的人,根本不知道这世界上除了美国之外还有其他国家。说得夸张一些,加拿大的LLB和中国的法律本科在他们眼里没什么区别,只要不是美国的。越是大的律所,这种观念越强烈:wdb15:

真是高见!:wdb17: :wdb10: 看来wondering也是同道中人,有机会多向你请教。考虑到多大LLM转JD的风险(需要考LSAT,还要重新申请)以及时间(经过email咨询,LLM的可能只有一小部分课程会被JD认可,这就意味着在LLM之后还要读2-3年的JD,总共要花3-4年读书,再经过接近1年的实习才能qualify,共要4-5年:wdb5::wdb7: )俺还是倾向去美国读LLM,尽快考个bar再说。现在正准备美国签证。

弱弱的问一句:加拿大绿卡对美国学生签证的申请有什么影响吗?有哪位有类似经历?万一签证官问起,该怎么回答呢?谢谢!

wondering 2007-05-13 04:15

我签证时很简单,属于水过,什么证明材料都没看,只问我在哪个公司工作,去美国学什么,就撕条了。根本没提加拿大的事,可能我护照上其他国家的签证太多,没注意到加拿大移民签证那一页吧。

不过据说现在形势不错,祝老王顺利:wdb10:

laowang 2007-05-14 22:24

thank you for your kind words, Wondering.

heqiang128 2007-06-07 09:28

中国与西方法治程度较高的国家相比还属于法治的真空地带,西方发达国家发展历程已经充分证明法治是一个国家和民族兴旺发达的必然选择,即使有着几千年封建传统,不含一丝现代法治元素的中华民族也无法抵挡住世界法治潮流的席卷,未来法治的真空地带必然要成为法治高度发达的王国。这为我们法律人提供了千载难逢的机遇。我想无论你是为了在加拿大或美国找一份好的工作,获得一份较高的收入,还是为了在国内找工作镀镀金,都应当把目光放长远,把所有从事法律学习和法律工作的过程作为积蓄实力的过程,充分利用学习国外法律的宝贵机会,比较国内法律与国外法律的差异,努力把自己打造成精通国内国际法律的高素质人才,为在中国法律事业兴旺之时施展自己的才能,获得人生新的飞跃打下坚实的基础。
无论走到哪里,我始终相信,世界的未来必将属于中华民族!

valeriejiao 2010-09-13 10:58

up

valeriejiao 2010-09-13 16:15

引用:

作者: heqiang128 (帖子 1616100)
中国与西方法治程度较高的国家相比还属于法治的真空地带,西方发达国家发展历程已经充分证明法治是一个国家和民族兴旺发达的必然选择,即使有着几千年封建传统,不含一丝现代法治元素的中华民族也无法抵挡住世界法治潮流的席卷,未来法治的真空地带必然要成为法治高度发达的王国。这为我们法律人提供了千载难逢的机遇。我想无论你是为了在加拿大或美国找一份好的工作,获得一份较高的收入,还是为了在国内找工作镀镀金,都应当把目光放长远,把所有从事法律学习和法律工作的过程作为积蓄实力的过程,充分利用学习国外法律的宝贵机会,比较国内法律与国外法律的差异,努力把自己打造成精通国内国际法律的高素质人才,为在中国法律事业兴旺之时施展自己的才能,获得人生新的飞跃打下坚实的基础。
无论走到哪里,我始终相信,世界的未来必将属于中华民族!

我好像看了篇政府报告:wdb23:

armtotooth 2011-10-18 08:24

哈哈